[Streaker]

herbie herbie:

Streaker Streaker:

poquas poquas:

This can't really be news. This was one of the first things GM announced when they realized they were in serious trouble.

Well, there was certainly a lot of speculation.

I'm still a little disappointed about it, though. The first car I can remember is my dad's old Grand Prix. I loved that car even though it was probably a piece of crap.

Denied it right up to the filing...

I guess, but it ain't over 'til the fat lady sings, as they say.

Now the fat lady has sung. It hasn't sunk in yet.

Not so long ago, Pontiac was a make that had appeal to younger buyers. I'm still not sure that GM has made a wise decision.

herbie herbie:

My first car was a 59 Pontiac Stratochief. Rode like a boat, Sludge-O-Matic tranny but you could seat 11 teens almost comfortably.

That Grand Prix was pretty good mechanically, as I recall, but after five years all the body trim was falling off and it looked pitiful.

"Body by Fisher" lol

[Mustang1]

Lemmy Lemmy:

J.D. Power is the most USELESS report on cars. It's based on the 1st 90 days of ownership. It's pretty meaningless, since every car in the market is under warranty for the first 90 days. Retained value at the end of warranty is the only meaningful measure of a car's quality.

It's the "most USELESS" report? Doubtful. Car manufacturers, industry magazines and newspapers (like the NY Times and Globe and Mail) seem to like quoting it. Oh...and i think you're referring to the Initial Quality Survey, which is only ONE of J.D. Power's reports. There are also ratings for depreciation, dependability (powertrain features, accessories, etc), manufacturing quality and service and sales experiences. I'd say its quite comprehensive and extremely influential.

[Regina]

Look for Chrysler to go down next week. Fiat may be there to pick up some of the pieces.

[Lemmy]

Mustang1 Mustang1:

It's the "most USELESS" report? Doubtful. Car manufacturers, industry magazines and newspapers (like the NY Times and Globe and Mail) seem to like quoting it. Oh...and i think you're referring to the Initial Quality Survey, which is only ONE of J.D. Power's reports. There are also ratings for depreciation, dependability (powertrain features, accessories, etc), manufacturing quality and service and sales experiences. I'd say its quite comprehensive and extremely influential.

Yes. I stand corrected.

[stemmer]

Mustang1 Mustang1:

herbie herbie:

I'd go for the goat entrails.

You would, and that would be the only thing that would tell you a Saturn has superior reliability.

$1:

About as reliable as going on expired data to judge something sitting in a car lot today.

J.D. Power and Consumer Reports is "expired" data? Please, oh please, explain how J.D. Power is "expired" data as GM seems to love using it in advertising when Buick does well? I'll wait on this one. You're nothing more than an apologist for junk automobiles. I've got industry experts and objective data and you've got...? Exactly. Shuffle on

$1:

Better than a brand name loyalty blinding you to the fact anyone can turn out a total P.O.S.

I've got superior automobile loyalty vs. your reliance on ignorance and anecdotal nonsense. Hondas are more reliable and have a higher resale value than Saturns. Done. Also, soon Saturn will go bye-bye, despite people like you that they're super, fantastic, fun, fun cars. Don't like it? I don't care.

Yawn *** You keep on suggesting people buy Hondas as an investment... Let me tell you one thing... People who buy cars as an investment do not buy Hondas. They buy '71 Hemi Cudas, 69 Cobra Mustangs, Challeger R/Ts, 67 Corvette Sting Rays, Studebaker Avantis... So you can shove your "investment" or "appreciation" argument where the sun doesn't shine....!!!!!!

People buy Hondas for transportation. I purchase Chevys because they last and I drive them into the ground... I don't buy a car every 3 or 4 years. That make's no sense...

[Mustang1]

stemmer stemmer:

Yawn *** You keep on suggesting people buy Hondas as an investment...

Uh-oh, our favorite Foiler just got caught making up crap again! Where did I suggest people "buy Hondas as an investment"?!?!? You go find that and i'll continue to label you as a disingenuous twit. I've recommended Hondas as dependable, reliable, well-engineered cars that don't depreciate as fast as their North American counterparts. You've done SQUAT to refute that.

$1:

Let me tell you one thing... People who buy cars as an investment do not buy Hondas. They buy '71 Hemi Cudas, 69 Cobra Mustangs, Challeger R/Ts, 67 Corvette Sting Rays, Studebaker Avantis...

This has NOTHING to do with your Canadian Tire logic, Speed Channel Boy! Those are nostalgic cars, NOT contemporary automobiles!!! Want to see what's worth more in 10 years - a Civic or a Cobalt? Or a G5?

Hey, want an investment, go buy a Ferrari, Lambo, Porsche, Benz, Bugatti or Bentley. Oh...and since you're a wiz at junk logic and research, why not give a list of the top cars ever sold at auction. We'll all count how many domestics are in the top 10.

$1:

So you can shove your "investment" or "appreciation" argument where the sun doesn't shine....!!!!!!

Actually, i'll kick it back into that maw of ignorance you call a head.

$1:

People buy Hondas for transportation. I purchase Chevys because they last and I drive them into the ground... I don't buy a car every 3 or 4 years. That make's no sense...

People buy Hondas for well-engineered, dependable, reliable pieces of technology. If they want cheap transportation, it's called a Cobalt.

$1:

I purchase Chevys because they last and I drive them into the ground... I don't buy a car every 3 or 4 years. That make's no sense...

I don't care what you buy nor does it carry any weight here. You can buy whatever you want, but that doesn't alter the fact that Honda and Toyota make superior products (as do their luxury divisions) that hold their value better than their domestic contemporaries. Your buying habits matter little

[stemmer]

Sounds like a Powerglide...and one of the toughest trannys ever built...Still used today in drag racing because of the phenomenal punishment & abuse they can take....

[stemmer]

How about this years Barrett-Jackson's top cars sold....

http://njection.com/blogs/jalopnik/arch ... tions.aspx

[Mustang1]

stemmer stemmer:

How about this years Barrett-Jackson's top cars sold....

http://njection.com/blogs/jalopnik/arch ... tions.aspx

OR...maybe you could actually answer the salient question - "Oh...and since you're a wiz at junk logic and research, why not give a list of the top cars ever sold at auction."

The operative word for the literate is "EVER".

[poquas]

stemmer stemmer:

How about this years Barrett-Jackson's top cars sold....

http://njection.com/blogs/jalopnik/arch ... tions.aspx

Good Christ Stemmer!

Barrett-Jackson auctions have NOTHING to do with day to day vehicles sold at your local failing GM dealership.

Barrett-Jackson auctions have NOTHING to do with the quality or value of any present day North American built vehicles.

Ever heard the term “apples and oranges”? Do you think you could put a little effort into a valid response to the topic at hand?

[Mustang1]

Oh...and i'm still waiting for our resident Canadian Tire aficionado to address the following, "Where did I suggest people "buy Hondas as an investment"?!?!?" I guess he either got caught lying or cowering. Or maybe both

[stemmer]

$1:

I don't care what you buy nor does it carry any weight here. You can buy whatever you want, but that doesn't alter the fact that Honda and Toyota make superior products (as do their luxury divisions) that hold their value better than their domestic contemporaries. Your buying habits matter little

That is not factual. That is merely your opinion. You are entitled to it.

For someone who doesn't care what I buy you certainly are worked up over the fact Herbie choose a Saturn over an Honda. It's his money, his decision. Learn to live with it....Not everyone's will is going to bend to your harrassment, bullying, name calling and trolling....

Now kindly punk off...you're starting to really annoy me.... Kindly leave the adult talk to adults and please find another forum for your juvenile antics...

[stemmer]

poquas poquas:

stemmer stemmer:

How about this years Barrett-Jackson's top cars sold....

http://njection.com/blogs/jalopnik/arch ... tions.aspx

Good Christ Stemmer!

Barrett-Jackson auctions have NOTHING to do with day to day vehicles sold at your local failing GM dealership.

Barrett-Jackson auctions have NOTHING to do with the quality or value of any present day North American built vehicles.

Ever heard the term “apples and oranges”? Do you think you could put a little effort into a valid response to the topic at hand?

Poquas - Kindly learn to read before posting... I was replying to this comment from Mustang1

$1:

why not give a list of the top cars ever sold at auction. We'll all count how many domestics are in the top 10.

Or are you denying me the right to respond to him? And why would you do that? Are you a moderator? Or is your grasp of reading and understanding a thread beyond your comprehension level?

And for your information when a '71 Hemi Cuda or '71 Mach I Mustang sold new in 1971 it was sold as a daily vehicle. Something which is beyond your ability to grasp....

[poquas]

stemmer stemmer:

Poquas - Kindly learn to read before posting... I was replying to this comment from Mustang1

$1:

why not give a list of the top cars ever sold at auction. We'll all count how many domestics are in the top 10.

Or are you denying me the right to respond to him? And why would you do that? Are you a moderator? Or is your grasp of reading and understanding a thread beyond your comprehension level?

And for your information when a '71 Hemi Cuda or '71 Mach I Mustang sold new in 1971 it was sold as a daily vehicle. Something which is beyond your ability to grasp....

No Stemmer. You have repeatedly posted this bullshit regarding Barrett-Jackson auctions when responding to the poor quality and value of NA built vehicles. The vehicles at those auctions were rusting and rotting pieces of junk that someone typically spent huge sums of money to restore into SHOW CARS or they were purchased for the express purpose of “pimping” for the show circuit. They have no bearing on a vehicle purchased for day to day use by any average person and your repeated use of this argument makes you look very foolish indeed.

If you are feeling humiliated by realizing that this topic isn’t a private conversation between you and any other specific individual is your problem. You should be embarrassed. Whenever someone asks you a pointed question that is in complete opposition to your views you display an annoying habit of responding with a completely inappropriate response like the auction reference or you just run away and ignore the question.

[stemmer]

Show's your ignorance in this matter. Cars that demand the most money at a Barrett-Jackson auction are those cars that have original matching vin (vehicle identification number) on the car and engine. Cars with ORIGINAL paint and minimum body work...

Granted there are many classic cars which are barnyard finds and restored to immaculate condition but they do not get the big bucks like an original... Many of these rusted hulks are prime candidates for customizing or hot rodding....